• Con Ciencia Indigena

Indigenous Science: With the Mazatec, Huichol and Maya of Mexico.

Interview with Mario Gómez Mayorga.

Mario Gómez Mayorga along with Rocio Lopez Ruiz, are the co-founders and co-operators of Con Ciencia Indigena, which means ‘with indigenous science’. Con Ciencia Indigena facilitates numerous spiritual workshops, transcendental experiences and sacred pilgrimages in Mexico, based upon the ancient Toltec way. For over 30 years now, Con Ciencia Indigena has helped people from all over the world to better themselves, grow and learn from the ancient Toltec’s descendants, the Huichol, Mazatec and Mayan peoples, who maintain their traditional ways of life and connection to the natural world. Con Ciencia Indigena offers a unique experience and insight into the traditional consciousness of the Huichol, Mazatec and Mayan peoples, by participating in their sacred ceremonies, fiestas, rituals, pilgrimages to sacred power places and way of seeing the world. In our increasingly dysfunctional, insane and heartless world, perhaps we all could learn something from our traditional elders.

For more than thirty years you have been in a close relationship with the most preserved indigenous cultures of Mexico and their healing ceremonies with sacred plant medicines. What led you to this path?

More than three decades ago I was working with a NGO to help support problems indigenous nations have with city urban white people, very especially with government legal issues. Because of this relationship we were regularly invited to assist in celebrations, fiestas, ceremonies and rituals, though the years this relationship deepened very profoundly, affecting the core foundations of my person and catapulting me into a completely different way of relating to life.

I never suspected this was going to happen, neither I was looking for it, like most people who read authors talking about indigenous magical beings or shamanism. It was not really interesting to me.

One day I discovered I had become someone entirely different, it happened slowly with our me really being aware of it, I found myself living inside a universe who is alive, conscious, and with whom one can be in a permanent back and forth dialogue though actions and consciences, where you never stop growing, as I discovered this I was never able to go away from them, no, I don't live among them, I just visit frequently, but inside I'm with them all the time. I see them as my spiritual family, there I found souls who I called my spiritual fathers, grandfathers, mothers and grandmothers, many incredible sisters and brothers. People from the spirit with whom I have lived the most extraordinary things I could not even dream in my wildest fantasies.

You have worked for over three decades with the Mazatec, Huichol and several Mayan indigenous groups. Can you tell us a little about these experiences?

Only with this question I could write at least two books. I'll try to synthesize this in one or two paragraphs.

I found with them a different way of seeing and relating to existence I was just a young and a bit confused person as it's normal in the youth, I was overwhelmed by the powerful straight forward serious and responsible, but full of beauty and magic, ways to engage with life I had no idea that existed, the poetic acts they do, the mysticism of their practices, the incredible lucid relationship they have with nature. What totally changed me was entering into the exploration of consciousness though the proposals, practices and uses and customs they live based on, and many times just because of being exposed to what they were doing in their works.

I also saw that there is a lot of New Age fantasies that are not found the indigenous world as most people believe, initially triggered in the 70's by the novel of Carlos Castaneda, and from there nothing stopped this nonexistent unreal Indigenous knowledge that sells some many weird books, and triggers so many self proclaimed "shamans" and nonsense trickery.

Yes the indigenous world is full of beautiful conscious aspects, somehow magical in the sense they open awareness and possibilities to become a better person and live a better life. But also they are humans, and not all of them are into knowledge and responsibility, they have all full array of human problems in their communities, the complete ego pack taking action in all they do. They also have severe problems like alcoholism, violence, and the abandonment of their communities and knowledge in the quest for making a better life earning dollars immigrating as illegal's in the U.S. Once they do that many may never return, and the ones who come back have their mind polluted by ideas that don't allow them to engrain again with their people and ways of living.

Some become famous, because city people makes them famous, promoting them as super shamans, or because they are indeed extraordinary artists. But with the fame and not prepared for such they simply go mad. Money destroys them because they have no idea how to use it once they have too much. I have seen them die because of fame, and the damage that too much money makes to them.

People must be very careful in how to really help and not kill them with good intentions. I came to the conclusion that the best is not to get too close to them, and not engage them in our world.

The Wirrarika (Huichols) Call us white people "Tewari." Sounds sweet no? One day after some ten years hearing how they call us, I dared to ask what, does it mean?

They told me: - "Do you know what a moth is? Have you seen they lay eggs? Have you seen what comes out of those eggs?

I said: - yes of course, these little worms.

They said: - And those little worms are "Tewaris" they make powder out of everything they touch.

I remember my knees had a hard time keeping me standing up. I felt terribly ashamed and sad. It was a blast of uncomfortable awareness that hit hard and deep. It is true. That’s what we do.

So no, just like any human and culture, they are not all shiny and beauty. They are light and shadow like we all are. They just happen to be still connected to nature in a very respectful way, and still knowing ways to communicate back and forth with it, and that is where they have an advantage over the civilized man who has lost it.

In many ways I see them as people of the future. Why? Well, don't we all want to be conscious and connected to Nature? We are beginning to try to walk in that direction, for us that place is the far future, especially now that the only thing we know is to make powder out of everything we touch.

You facilitate retreats with Con Ciencia Indígena to Oaxaca in the Mazatec Sierra, to experience the Mazatec sacred plant medicine healing ceremonies. What is involved with these retreats?

The Mazatec’s are the second most preserved indigenous nation in Mexico and direct descendants of the antique Toltec’s, they still keep many traditions and knowledge alive, among this is their use of sacred plants for healing, awakening consciousness, and divination.

These retreats are organized with a series of preparations we give to people in order to be able to participate with this ceremonies in the best way possible. You cannot just arrive there and go straight to a magical happening that might as well change the course of your life forever. So we have a series of practices and exercises we share and do with people to prepare them beforehand, we go to some power places that are sacred for the Mazatec where they say one must present itself before engaging with their mountains, water, people, sacred plants, ceremonies and consciousness. As in every indigenous nation things have a special order to follow and a special respect to enter.

People who come seeking for this experiences have many reasons to do it. Some are looking for different healings, others are wanting to awaken into consciousness and a lucid life, others might be seeking ways to solve their relationships, cure their family structure, recover harmony at home, awaken creativity, others are not sure what they want but want to know what is it that they want, some go to finish digesting a grief, or to forgive, or let go, There can be as many reasons to seek for this experience as people are.

The main point in this experiences is the betterment of the person and therefore the life they live.

How are the Mazatec sacred plant medicine healing ceremonies conducted?

The Mazatec Sacred plants ceremonies are interesting and profound. The procedure is to stop eating meat, having sexual relationships, and not engaging is stressful or emotionally low experiences at least one week before and after the ceremony. Then visit special power places to express your will and the reason to do the ceremony, places that will hear you and talk to nature on your behalf, also to clean and prepare your energy. Between 10 to 24 hours of fasting before the ceremony. For the ceremony they prefer to dress in white as a symbol, meaning one has done by all means the best to enter as clean as possible. They have a special ceremony room where this happens. At the entrance one is cleaned with copal resin smoke (An antique indigenous incense) and whipped softly all over the body with some herbs.

Once in the ceremony room the medicine woman or he shaman depending on what they see in the person, they will determine how many "Niñitos" (little children) as they call the mushrooms the person will take. They also know how to mix specific amounts of different types of mushrooms to help the person in the best way possible, as each kind produces slightly different effects.

In the ceremony room generally there is an altar where candles are lit, but sometimes its just an empty room. To begin the ceremony, people ingest the Niñitos, lay down comfortably and then the candles are turned off. The ceremony takes place in total darkens to allow the person not to get distracted by the surroundings. During the ceremony chants, prayers, and things are said as the healer monitors the experience of each person. Eventually near the end of the ceremony that can vary between 6 to 10 hours, each person is cleaned again with a special herb called "San Pedro" applied in specific parts of the body such as the stomach, the forehead, the inner parts of the arms.

Then the healer will stay in total silence to allow the last part of the experience in such way when its beginning to land. People get realizations, understandings, forgiving, comprehension, visions, revelations, healings.... When it's over a cup of hot chocolate is given to the people to help them finish landing. Next day is a tranquil day to allow the experience to finish landing and digesting until the experience is fully understood. (still realizations will keep on appearing in the future weeks, months and even tears after that)

The Mazatec people are famous for their healing ceremonies using the sacred medicines Salvia divinorum and Psilocybe mushrooms. Can you explain how these sacred medicines work in healing, are they used to diagnose illness and treatment, or do they heal themselves, or is it both perhaps?

This is another topic that would make a full book. The Psilocybe mushroom of the Mazatec, the Psilocybe mazatecorum is famous because it is very different from the others, it is an endemic species, (this means it only grows in that part of the world and nowhere else) and the effect of this mushroom is very profound lucid and somehow friendly and lovely to humans. The healing basically happens in a specific heightened state of consciousness. And it happens only if the person understands what is needed to solve the challenge. The Mazatec say that only the person who has the power to get ill, has the power to heal, and that no one else can make it happen for them. This is true shamanism. You will not find people who tell you they will do your homework for you. So no there is no diagnosis or treatment but something much higher, to be responsible for yourself and solve your issues as a conscious being though the awareness you brought up for yourself. You figure out the problem, you solve it. The mushroom or the Salvia assist you to arrive to the state of awareness needed for such magic to happen. If at any moment the medicine woman or healer interferes is very lightly, and generally just to help you clean a blockage. To help you work in your responsibility. Only if you can't handle the experience the healer will strongly interfere to land you out of there and put you in a safe place, basically in your bed to sleep and rest. I have seen this only twice in thirty five years

No doubt the experience of the sacred medicines Salvia divinorum and Psilocybe mushrooms have some similarities, being used in the same ways, but are also very different experiences. And having also worked with the Huichol people who are famous for their use of the sacred plant medicine Peyote in their healing ceremonies, can you describe the similarities and differences between the experiences of these three sacred medicines?

This would again be theme for another book. To begin with I can tell you there are no similarities but differences. These three sacred plants are dramatically different one from another. Also the indigenous nations using them despite of being related to the antique Toltec are very different groups.

I can tell you these plants and the ways they are used have nothing in common but probably only the need of people reaching them for reasons that escapes their ordinary way of dealing with reality.

To enter in the details about this three plants and their ways is probably something that will just not fit in an interview, I have thought for a while how to synthesize this but found no way to do it. This requires of a lot of explanations and then one must enter into really abstract fields to even try to talk about it.

See how different they are:

The mushrooms grow at night, in the very dense forest in the sierra among dense vegetation, they appear all of a sudden in something called "spontaneous generation", (this means that when a lightning strikes, the release of electricity in the air makes the spores to appear as tiny mushrooms from one moment to the other. They just appear in an instant. Then they grow in the dark under the rain and can be collected within a week, sunlight kills them. The Mazatec use them in the night in the dark, and many times in silence. They will guide you in joyful child playful way, but very strong also and serious at the same time.

Salvia is a very tough little pant to take, the flavor is really difficult, and you must chew a lot of leaves and then spit them out to continue chewing a lot more you need around one kilo of leaves to have an experience. Some Mazatec’s also squash the leaves in water than then filter it with a cloth to be able to drink the liquid. Also very difficult to drink. For this plant you need total silence and to remain completely still. Then something very subtle begins to grow around you until it becomes very powerful, but a single tiny noise like a mosquito passing by, or if you move let’s say just as finger it all disappears and you are completely normal again. To go in again you need to be again totally quiet and still, then it grows again around you. That presence is incredibly feminine, some relate her with a goddess or the virgin. In the state it produces you can know things, like where lost things, animals or people are, or even see the future.

On the other hand Peyote grows in the very dry desert, his strength comes from the sunlight. Needs almost no water, which it takes from the dawn dew, one peyote takes around 14 years before it can be collected. Wirrarika people (Huichols) use them around a fire, generally dancing, and singing, many times walking a pilgrimage under the sun. The experience with Hikuri (Peyote) takes many hours, at least 12 to 14 hours, but the Wirrarika keep on eating while already in the experience, so they are many times from five days to a full week in very high states of consciousness. It takes many days to fully land and feel normal on this planet again.

Very different plants, with very different behaviors, each one used in a very different context, by very different people, producing very different effects and used for very different reasons.

The only similarity is that they are a mind altering Sacred Plant pushing to strong states of consciousness and lucid awareness.

You point out on your Con Ciencia Indígena website that the Mazatec, Huichol and Mayan peoples all descend from the ancient Toltec people of Mexico. Are their sacred plant medicine ceremonies all conducted in the same ways, or are there differences?

Even when they are rooted to the antique Toltec's, and many of their Cosmo-vision, and ways of behaving, as well as elements in the ways they use attention, focus, impeccability, and their relationship with nature, the sacred plant ceremonies they say was shown to them directly by the plants themselves. There are no similarities in the ways they use their Sacred Plants, except, probably that they always prefer to work with them in the magic of the night. They are very different even in simple things, like for example: the Mazatec’s work in total darkness, and not moving from the laying position, on the other hand, the Huichols will be around a fire dancing for long periods, and other times stilling staring to the fire, or hearing the Marakame (shaman) narrate their legends, stories and myths, and when the effect of Hikuri (Peyote) is too strong then you will see them just laying on the ground without moving at all for many hours.

How does the ceremonial use of sacred plant medicines such as Salvia divinorum, Psilocybe mushrooms and Peyote help people spiritually?

That question is very difficult to answer because it is not so much about the plant but about the person. If the person is a spiritual person they the experience will be spiritual. There is this New Age belief that Sacred Plants enlighten people. This is far from being true. Sacred plants are somehow super amplifiers, the will take the person as far away as possible inside what the person already is.

Sacred plants are tools, and not only because you can eat them it means they will help you. This plants are to be taken carefully and only if you are a person who is healthy and normally working in itself, if you have a path that you are already walking, and on your path you find difficulties to continue or get stuck and only after you have made all the efforts to continue walking and you don't find the way, is when it is allowed to get close to a sacred plant and ask for help, explaining where you got stuck, what you have tried and your desire to continue your path with no obstacles. Then a sacred plant helps and then it is Sacred and even spiritual. What happens there is that you get a strong push in the direction you are already walking. If it's a lucid path then that is what you will get. But that also explains why confused people have bad trips and end up worse than before the trip.

Spirituality is the relationship you have with life. You can see it your everyday life, what is your way of relating to your existence, with life, with nature, and animals, with people, the relationship with your job, with the order in your home, and the world in general?

So can a Sacred plant be spiritual? Only the one who takes the plant can figure this out.

I know this will not be politically correct and some might not like it, but I want to share this as it explains a lot.

One day they asked a Wirrarika elder a Marakame (shaman) if a Sacred Plants could make people intelligent, and if shamans got enlightened eating Sacred Plants?

And he answered: - "Some people are born stupid, you cannot get rid of that with anything, not even eating sacred plants."

For what other purposes do the Toltec descendants use sacred plant medicines traditionally?

Sacred plants are used, to heal, awaken into consciousness, divination, opening and closing cycles, as rites of passage from one epoch of life into another, as when entering the adulthood or family life, to forgive, to detach, to digest grief, for walking pilgrimages, to hunt, to ritual dance, sometimes even to die well.

And as mentioned before not everyone is all New Age shiny novel like, there are people who use them to do wrong things as well. These always pay the bill sooner than later.

You also facilitate a Toltec Vision Quest with Con Ciencia Indígena,which you describe as a profound life changing experience. What is involved in the Toltec Vision Quest and how is it profoundly life changing?

The Vision Quest Pilgrimage journey is a route where we pass by several doors, or gates that are found in nature; "portals" where we do special works, places that are on the world, but as well and more important, they are inside of ourselves.

The pilgrimage is a double journey; on the visible side it happens on the world, but in parallel it´s an inner pilgrimage that takes the individual beyond the limits which contain the person and it´s daily routines, it's a trip of transcendence that aims toward self consciousness and lucidity.

In every place and its particular energy we will work with different indigenous exercises, techniques, and procedures, connecting with nature though her many faces; rivers, cascades, jungle, mountains, forests, a volcano, caves, and underground rivers.

Finally we will arrive to the desert as ending point, where thanks to the previous preparation each participant will be ready to work in The Vision Quest as the culminant event of this pilgrimage to mystery.

This journeys' objective is to be prepared to be able to intent a Vision Quest, thanks to this possible revelation the participant will be able to see which are the next steps to follow in life; and for some, even something as important as the direction that has been searched for so long, the real sense and mission for being alive on this marvelous world.

It's a life changing experience if the participant wants 'it to be. Here we deliver the most powerful techniques from the Toltec world, and vanguard human development tools. The totality of experiences lived though this journey may be a catapult point to transcend the participants’ way of living, being able to leave behind all the habits and routines that unchain a poor and painful life, and begin The Path Of The Heart seeking for Consciousness and the Spirit.

Can you tell us about The Warrior Burial shamanic initiation and powerful rite of passage that you provide with Con Ciencia Indígena?

The burial of the warrior, The Earth's hug it's an incredibly profound and beautiful experience, like a live poem where you can talk with the being of the planet, the mother of all living beings' on earth.

There may be many reasons to get buried: To heal wounds from the past, solve mental, emotional, or energetic patterns, to recapitulate personal history, arrange the past, forgive, or detach, to trust and open to love, to prepare for a difficult challenge, or big change, to close and open cycles, to recover balance and harmony, dissolve traumas, or digest grief, for profound self-observation, to connect and re-charge strength from the love of Earth, to ask for advice, and recover the sober consciousness of being mortal. No doubt this procedure is the best therapist you can find.

It's possible to open a conscious dialogue with the being of the planet, and receive from her, and the Universe, loud and clear answers. Everything that exists on the earth came out of her; the body of every inhabitant of the planet is nothing else but soil and water organized with a supreme intelligence, the incredible diversity that lives on the planet, the texture of her skin, is nothing else but her body manifesting an infinity of variations, though all her children.

It's the Earth where the potential and ways to manifest any life form we know about are contained. For all who exist on the world Earth is life itself, without her there would be nothing.

Therefore it´s not difficult to understand that the Earth is not only our creator and Mother, but also a Goddess that manifests life in ways that outgrows our most dare full dreams. That´s why to connect with her being and consciousness opens all the possibilities our heart wishes.

Unlike most retreat providers, at Con Ciencia Indígena you conduct workshops for children and teenagers, which I think is great. What is involved with these workshops and how is it beneficial for them?

This workshops are fun and difficult (for us coordinators) As therapists we are well aware that most of the damage adults have come from their childhood, that is where almost every human has the foundation of adult problems, relationship problems, violence, addictions, depressions, and a huge etcetera, is all rooted in the early stages of a person.

Therefore that is what made us create workshops for children and teens, because if you solve these root issues when they are still malleable this can help them to grow as free, healthy, creative, joyful, adults, instead of having to invest their adult life healing the initial stages of existence, to finish solving them entering the old age, or soon to die.

We work with them though activities that seem games, and somehow they are, but games that will teach them how to be brave, how to use other senses, and different ways to relate to others and themselves, to discover that they can connect with nature and find there an incredible source of knowledge and peace, to discover how many amazing virtues they have to make a fantastic life. This all is very important for them to grow healthy, loving and respecting nature, and life in general , hopefully this could help have in the near future adults that will really care and protect nature and animals, and educate their children in that way when they have them. We urgently need people with this consciousness for our very damaged world.

We always ask for the presence of their parents or tutors. Safety is the rule number one we have in every workshop or trip we make, so here parents are part of the safety law. But also their presence is needed because they have to know what is going on there, as after this kind of workshop children tend not to allow to be abused, manipulated, or programmed with things they dislike. Somehow the lucid rebel is awakened. For us as coordinators the parents or tutors presence is vital so they also learn different way to relate to the little ones, in many activities parents are also part of the dynamic of the games. When many little children are in the workshop we also need every parent to keep an eye on their kids as you cannot really control a group of kids because normally they doing whatever comes to their mind.

You also provide an introduction to Toltec knowledge and its practical applications in everyday life with Con Ciencia Indígena. Can you tell us about this and how Toltec knowledge can help people in their everyday lives?

This is a beautiful workshop to enter into a path in life, here we provide all the basics to begin building a responsible aware life. Things like the magic of paying attention sharply, and self observation, to use attention as a tool to be present and act purposefully to manifest the wished of the heart. Ways to find limitations or blockages and the ways to overcome them and transcend into a freer person, to face fears and disassemble them, to be brave and apply it in a practical ways. Learning the strategic ways to achieve goals. To learn the attitude of a warrior that takes every problem in life as a challenge and an opportunity to grow and become a better person. Yes to find the flaws, but also the virtues that lay behind every flaw, therefore flaws become beautiful gifts once correctly faced.

The techniques learned during the workshop are shamanic practices that aim to free and awaken the participant's consciousness. It is also a proposal for spiritual growth inviting to recover lost consciousness, and to awaken parts that are still asleep. To rescue the true magical nature of oneself, and deepen our relationship with the being that unconditionally gives us food, home and love; The Earth.

Self exploration through procedures, tools, and ways rooted among indigenous nations survivals from the antique Toltec’s. This knowledge, is a conglomerate of techniques, practices, and procedures. Actions that bring growth and understanding; -know how- to create a balanced, positive and healthy way of living.

The workshop offers a series of methods that allow the opportunity to modify your habits, to be able to change routines, and this way to re-invent yourself based on your own consciousness.

A possibility to stop living permanently locked in the mechanical routine of the ego. Create the person your heart really wishes to be, by knowing how to apply strategic acts on purpose to change the course of life.

It is also the opportunity to rescue forgotten parts of the unlimited human potential, like: inner balance, attention, focus, lucidity, recover creativity, re-arrange personal power to optimal conditions, among other things that can be done. In synthesis it is an intense experience that leads to the comprehension of areas of oneself though direct experience, knowing and applying different ways to work in the mind, feelings, and consciousness.

With modern culture literally destroying the planet we all depend upon for survival, do you think that ancient traditional ways and knowledge systems that are informed by the use of sacred medicines like that of the Toltec, can change the world for the better?

I do see the urgency of the epoch we are facing, as the planet is already in the tipping point to be broken with no turning back. It is incredible we can't still understand we need of the planets health to be healthy. We need the water to drink, the air to breathe, yet we don't seem to get such obvious facts. So that's why we consider the tools and techniques to awaken lucidity and awareness to be a direct and effective way to address such urgent problematic. Awakened people become servants of life's mission instead of parasites going against it.

As I mentioned before the intake of Sacred Medicines does not make any magic just because, but are tools and powerful helpers for those who are walking a path. For the serious seekers I do think those amazing gifts from nature bring beauty and freedom beyond imagination. Almost a miracle that we have access to.

Sacred plants do not change the world at all, they have been here probably before people. It is people the ones who can make any difference. Healthy, free awakened people is what we need.

What advice do you have for someone that is new to sacred plant medicines, but is interested in this type of path?

This is a question I frequently get. For me a bit difficult to answer as I do not advice anything.

Sacred plants are so powerful, they can modify your person and vision of the world in such profound ways, they are such giant portals to freedom... But not for everyone. Some people who are not mentally healthy, or who are weak, too afraid, can have a devastating experience because of not being able to face and understand them. Yes I have seen many awaken. it is one of the most beautiful gifts to witness such. I have also seen people fry their brains and stay damaged for good. That is the saddest thing ever.... neither an easy thing to go though.

Sacred Plants are not toys, they are not recreational, and not drugs like many think, drugs are made in a laboratory by humans, and they are always out of balance. Those can really destroy you really bad, you can see every day the consequences of all the Big Pharma products.

Sacred Plants grow from the soil, Nature creations, they are in perfect balance.

As far as I dare to say is, if you feel the call, if the call is really strong, and you have the firm intuition that there is a door for you there, go for it. To engage with a power plant is something that you have to decide and never look for anyone's advice to decide if you are going to do it. It is a moment of deep secret privacy with yourself. It is your responsibility no matter what the outcome might be. In this sense it is that these plants are sacred and it is only about you, with yourself. If you decide you will do it, Yes do it with someone you fully trust, someone who knows well what it is all about. Someone with experience, to guide you and take care of you in any eventuality that might happen once immersed in realms you have no idea about. Someone who knows those paths well enough to be able to bring you back safely and healthy.

Is there anything else you would like to talk about and get across to people?

I would only like to invite people to become interested in exploring and awakening who they really are. We are born here for a reason, our life is very brief, but we can certainly make an impact on everything we touch. Let's leave a healthy imprint of our presence on this planet, lets become inspiration for others to follow the invitation to become a lucid free, powerful, being, manifesting marvel in every step given.

One of the most beautiful and powerful aspects of the Toltec knowledge is the consciousness of being mortals. "The consciousness of death" Not to die, but to be powerfully alive! The only certain thing we have in life is death. Everything else may change. But we will die for sure, this is the ultimate unchangeable truth. Live fully, be present, do what you came to do here. Death comes any moment. Be sure every one of your actions is as powerful and lucid as your personal power allows you to, as if it was your very last act on earth. Any of the things we do, any normal day, will be the last. Build all your life in this fashion, with this power, so when you die you cannot be more satisfied of the efforts and joy of having been here briefly giving the example to live as beautifully as possible.

If you would like to learn more, please click on the following link Con Ciencia Indígena www.concienciaindigena.org

Posted by Tricho Serious Ethnobotany This article first appeared in Sacred Hoop magazine issue 104, 2019. © Brett Lothian Link to the original interview: https://trichoseriousethnobotany.blogspot.com/2019/12/indigenous-science-with-mazatec-huichol_4.html

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